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43 thoughts on “On growing a pair”

  1. Mike G says:

    Dear Hilary, I had regularly read this blog since the Synod, and overlooked a few things here and there that I thought were unbecoming for a Catholic, especially a Catholic woman, to speak casually about in public – various instances of swearing and references to getting drunk and all that. I let things go when I shouldn’t have, in order to read the rest of what you were saying.

    But if you are saying that the horrible, awful, vulgar woman in this clip (I don’t know who she is, I’ve never heard of the movie or TV show or whatever it is) represents you, then I don’t want to read you anymore.

    I am not perfect, but I don’t put it out in public, and I hope that the few comments here in the com box that hold the same view that I am espousing help you lift your game, and set a good example.

    We live in a modern world of muck and filth, and if one of us lets the guard down, it makes it easier for others to think it’s OK. We are all fallen sinners who give in too easily, but Scripture says that the “righteous one is scarcely saved”. That is, even the people who make it to Heaven barely scrape in. This is no time to be letting ourselves be dragged down with the world.

    I hope you accept this in the charity it is intended. Thanks all the best.

  2. Lionel Andrades says:

    July 14, 2016
    Video intereview with Gloria TV

    Why do we need the Old Latin Mass?
    We need the Old Latin Mass since it represents to us the theology and spirituality of the early ages of the Church.It comes to us from the eight century and before the eight century the Age of the Fathers and they have somethng to say to the Church of all ages.The spirituality of the Mass is the spirituality of the Church right up to the middle of the 20th century.That’s something which is part of the Deposit of the Faith.-Joseph Shaw
    This is not true. Josesph Shaw assumes hypothetical cases , without the baptism of water are known exceptions in 2016 to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the old ecclesiology.This is irrational,non traditional and heretical. It is part of the ecclesiology of the Novus Ordo and Traditional Latin Mass today.
    So the spirituality of the Old Mass has changed.It is not the same as during the time of the Church Fathers or even the 16th century missionaries who only had the Latin Mass.
    If the philosophical innovation of being able to judge hypothetical cases as being visible was not there,we are back to the old ecclesiology of the eight century. Theology will not have changed.
    Pope Francis is permitting the Latin Mass today only because it is not part of the Deposit of the Faith, theologically. So it becomes a break with old spirituality.
    Joseph Shaw, John Lamont and Fr. Harrison object to the subjectivism of Amoris Laetitia but not to the subjectivism in a new theology, which contradicts the Principle of Non Contradiction.This is the staple ecclesiology of the Traditional Latin Mass.
    So many times I have written about this but Joseph Shaw will not comment. He, like Fr. Harrison and John Lamont would prefer to remain Anonymous on this issue.
    Joseph Shaw and the Latin Mass Society need the approval of the English bishops and the Vatican. They are also politically correct with the Left on this issue.
    The Benedictine Prior at Norcia also remains politically correct on this issue and so avoids commenting on what I keep writing. He could be one of the Anonymous signatories critical of Amoris Laetitia.
    The new director of the Human Life International, Rome, Fr. Francesco Giordano could also be among the ‘Anonymous Group’.He interprets the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, as having ‘developments’, when he teaches this subject at the Pontificaal University of St.Thomas Aquinas, Rome.He offers the Traditional Latin Mass and teaches the new theology, as he did, at the old Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate seminary in Boccea, Rome.Like Fr. Brian Harrison he remains non controversial and Anonymous on this issue.
    Lionel Andrades

  3. Lionel Andrades says:

    Rory Donnellan says:
    A related question is why are traditional Catholics working for organisations/institutions that could terminate their employment based on a respectful letter to Cardinals? Are they so desperate for a job to provide for their families that they are prepared to work for enemies of the Church – including the enemies within?
    We sometimes hear the same argument from Catholics who work for the freemasons or in abortion clinics.

    Understandable. So the Anonymous Catholics are saying that there could be heretical interpretations of Amoris Laetitia (AL) but the Pope is not heresy.
    When AL suggests that a person in manifest mortal sin is not necessarily in mortal sin, and does not contradict traditional teachings on mortal sin nor Pope John Paul II’s encyclical on moral theology , Veritatis Splendor, it is not a mortal sin.So Cardinal Schonborn and Cardinal Baldiserri and of course Pope Francis cannot be in mortal sin.
    To assume that we can objectively know the subjective state of someone in manifest mortal sin who is not allegedly in mortal sin, is subjectivism, philophical subjectivism,
    The Non-anonymous members of the Anonymous Signatories ( Fr.Brian Harrison, John Lamont and Joseph Shaw) use philosophical subjectivism in the interpretation of salvation theology just as AL does with moral theology.
    According to their new theology, there are known cases of the baptism of desire etc in 2016 for these hypothetical cases to be explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus according, to the 16th century missionaries and Fr. Leonard Feeney of Boston.So there are exceptions to all needing to formally enter the Church for them. They all accept the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 which says there are exceptions.
    This is not heretical for them. So when Pope Francis and the Masons suggest that there are exceptions to manifest mortal sin and that a mortal sin it not always a mortal sin, the pope and his bad cardinals are not in heresy.
    -Lionel Andrades

  4. Rory Donnellan says:

    A related question is why are traditional Catholics working for organisations/institutions that could terminate their employment based on a respectful letter to Cardinals? Are they so desperate for a job to provide for their families that they are prepared to work for enemies of the Church – including the enemies within?
    We sometimes hear the same argument from Catholics who work for the freemasons or in abortion clinics.

  5. Deacon Augustine says:

    Veri Catholici:

    Good point. We can do a modernist compromise with the spirit of the age and use “Liquid Nails” instead. If it works for skirting boards and dado rails, you can be sure it will work for the “95 Antitheses of Amoris Laetitia.”

  6. Marcus20 says:


    You are right, but . . . the “crappy parish on the edge of nowhere” where a good priest has been sent . . . is where I want to attend mass.

    There are human beings in “crappy” parishes, too.

    And how many heterosexual priests who don’t open the diocese to massive liability claims are there, nowadays?

    The good priest has the power of being a scarce resource.

    The ancient mass has been everywhere thrown in the garbage, and many high altars destroyed.

    But that was just the beginning.

    Many bishops won’t be happy until all the churches have been converted to community centers, where environmentalists can worship the Earth Mother.

    If there is no strong reaction to Amoris, then this will be seen — correctly — as a kind of permission to go further.

    Women deacons are obviously next, the celebration of Martin Luther is being prepared . . .

    Luther denied the Real Presence, the sacrificial priesthood, the sacraments, the mass, and all tradition . . . and the Pope wants to celebrate the Reformation.

    Get ready for your local parish to be changed into a restaurant.

  7. Dymphna says:

    I know why the pastors are afraid. They don’t want to end up being sent to a crappy parish on the edge of nowhere. The lay-folk should get non church jobs and quit playing priest.

  8. Veri Catholici says:

    Deacon Augustine,

    We inform you that the doors of St. Peter’s are made of bronze for a reason.

  9. edison says:

    So what’s the “trigger” to go public with the document and names if (when??) the Cardinals fail to do their duty? I can see this thing going down the memory hole…..

  10. Linda says:

    What Deacon Augustine said.

  11. Brian says:


    I’ve seen that quote before. It perfectly fits the topic, and it shows us where this is all headed; both in Church and State.

    I think I’m going to somehow hang it on my wall.

  12. Fuquaysteve says:

    Deacon Augustine….I like the way you think….brilliant.

  13. St. BenedictBenedict's Thistle says:

    I suppose it is a matter of doing all things decently and in order. Let’s just get on with it. The theologians have their jobs. For now. Let the rest of us be ready to aid them when the wrath of New Church comes down.

  14. Rory Donnellan says:

    I would never be so bold as to cast aspersions on the manliness of the signatories, but are disclaimers like this really warranted? “His role as signatory and spokesman for the group is as a private person, concerned Catholic, and philosopher, and should not be construed as representative of the institutions for which he serves in an official capacity.”
    A couple of chukkers on stallions at the Guards Polo Club could be a very effective remedy! Not that my comments should be viewed as medical advice, or construed as representative of any institutions for which I serve in an official capacity!

  15. Eugene says:

    Dear Hilary I understand your anger but you could have made your point without posting that disgusting video of Hollywood garbage. This is not worthy of you or your blog. I ask you to please remove it.

  16. Rory Donnellan says:

    Thought for the day:
    “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?… The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If…if…We didn’t love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation…. We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
    ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn – Gulag Archipelago

  17. Brian says:

    When did it become ok for Catholic commentators to compare courage to the size of one’s balls? Sheesh!

    And the video is stupid; not funny. To be funny, it has to have some connection to reality. In the real world, she would get her ass kicked out of the office right on down to he unemployment line.

    I agree with your premise. Wish they’d attached their names. I attach mine. So do you. But really; could ya please stop using the small ball thing to prove your courage point?

  18. Mike says:

    What in hell have you ever risked in defending the Faith, Hillary?

  19. Deacon Augustine says:

    When it is ignored and the men charged to defend the faith with their blood fail to act on it, I hope to see the whole thing with signatories nailed to the church door at St. Peters. Ideal timing would be as his nibs flies out to Lund to celebrate the heresies of Martin Luther. Even somebody as obtuse as Bergoglio should be able to see the irony of that protest.

  20. John Lamont says:

    Dear Hilary,

    I don’t think the accusation of cowardice and anonymity stands up, as the identity of the signatories of the document is known to all of the college of cardinals and Eastern patriarchs. They will thus be known at once to the ecclesiastical powers who will have an interest in punishing them for this initiative, and it can be expected that this punishment will be forthcoming – as the signatories are well aware. (I will mention that I am one of the signatories myself.) The names of the signatories have not been publicly announced because the appeal is to the college of cardinals and to the patriarchs, rather than to the general Catholic public. That is because it is the college of cardinals and the patriarchs that have the first responsibility to take steps in approaching (and reproaching) the pope on Amoris Laetitia. In legal and ecclesiastical terms, they have the right to be the first recipients of any protest and request for action about the errors of that document. If they carry out their responsibilities, there will be no need for the signatories to address Catholics generally about the errors of Amoris Laetitia, because the college of cardinals will do so on their behalf, with greater authority. You are no doubt skeptical about the possibility of this happening, and I would not argue with you about that. But the people at the top have to at least be given a chance to do their job and carry out their responsibilities. It is a matter of respect for their office and its authority – which is respect for the Church herself – regardless of the actual character of the officeholders. Showing this respect provides some protection against retaliation for the signatories, which is another reason for addressing ecclesiastical authority rather than the general public in the first place; but it is justified on its own terms. If the ecclesiastical authorities fail in this regard, then a broader appeal to Catholics can become justified and necessary. At the same time it is important for Catholics generally to know that someone is trying to do something about the errors of Amoris Laetitia and the harm these errors are causing. One may anticipate as well that the supporters of these errors will try to misrepresent the appeal in order to discredit it. It thus becomes desirable to clarify its nature at the outset. Hence the press release, which is not a final statement on the whole affair.

    John Lamont

  21. Tradical says:

    Hi Hilary,

    There is no obligation to publish it to the ‘intergnat’.

    You and I do not need to know the names of the authors, that 45 people signed the document is sufficient for each Cardinal (and ultimately the Pope) to know who is behind the analysis and censures. That in and of itself calls for our respect and patience as this is frankly very delicate ground and reacting like a bull in a china shop will not make a disastrous situation any better.

    You will just have to practice patience and wait for it to be leaked, as I am certain eventually someone will think it important enough to stop/help by doing so.


  22. March Hare says:

    ‘Lay theologian’ is an oxymoron…

  23. Hilary White says:

    Or, alternately, if you do have serious concerns, don’t sign. Act in a consultative capacity and let the signers be the guys who CAN afford to be singled out. But don’t do this half-assed weaselly thing of pretending that it’s no business of the public, that it’s just a private matter between theologians and the cardinals. And then get huffy when you’re called on it. Put up or shut up. Either of those options in this case are morally defensible, but stop trying to play it both ways. If you got into this war imagining that it was all just a polite academic thought experiment, separated from nitty gritty realities, then you haven’t been paying attention to what our enemies are really like.

  24. Stephen says:

    yup. people needed to put their names on the line. cowardice never wins people to a movement.

  25. Lionel Andrades says:

    There’s a theology conference happening right now in Norcia -Hilary White

    I personally wrote, may be a year back, to Fr.Cassian Folsom O.S.B, at the Monastery at Norcia asking him if hypothetical cases of the baptism of desire are explicit in 2016 for them to be exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus?
    SImilarly I have asked him if cases of being saved in invincible ignorance, with or without the baptism of water, are objectively known in 2016.Can we personally know someone saved outside the Church without the baptism of water ? There is no answer.He does not comment on blog posts on this issue, which I send him, which also mention what is being taught at Norcia and is a break with the theology of St. Benedict, their founder.

    This is really a philosophical question that I am asking which has a bearing on theology.
    Even your ‘man’ who has specialised in philosophy will not answer these questions.
    Fr.Cassian Folsom and Joseph Shaw have studied philosophy and theology.
    Similarly I have asked Boniface at the blog Unam Sanctam Catholicam, which has announced a theology conference at Norcia this month, if hypothetical cases can explicitly be seen in 2016, can we see any know of any case of the baptism of desire this year or in the past? He will not answer.-Lionel Andrades

    Monastery of St. Benedict in Norcia, Italy interprets St.Thomas and Vatican Council II with an irrationality : bad theology

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  28. Judy says:

    That video was hysterical. I once told my husband that, when it comes to Catholic men, so many men, so few balls. This was in the context of these “Catholic Men’s Groups” that sit around and whine and moan about the problems in the Church, but never take action of any sort. Heck, they won’t even pull their kids out of public schools or admit that the parish religious education programs aren’t terribly Catholic. Oh, but they’ll show up at a club meeting wearing their precious matching shirts, hold pancake fundraisers, and maybe even attend the occasional Bible study. But will they fight for their families? Will they leave their catholic-lite parishes and drive to an orthodox parish? No way. Got to have that time to sit around and watch television or play stupid games, and hitting the nearest Saturday 5:00 in shorts and sandals checks off the box.

  29. Fr. Brian Harrison, O.S. says:

    Please cool down a bit, Hilary! Anger and insults only shed more heat than light, and aren’t really helpful here.
    Disqualifying lay people from getting doctorates in theology would not in any case change the situation you are so irate about, because at least as many priests as lay people are going to want to remain anonymous in something like this. They may not have wives and children to feed, but they do have bishops who may suspend them ‘a divinis’, leaving them without jobs or sustenance (like not a few priests who have been unjustly accused of sexual abuse of minors), or at least relegate them to the proverbial boondocks. Other priests are under vows of obedience to superiors who would never let them publicize their names as participants in an initiative that calls in question the orthodoxy of the Supreme Pontiff.
    In any case, it’s most unfair to accuse all the signatories other than Dr. Shaw of a lack of testicular fortitude; for there’s no reason why they SHOULD have to reveal that their names are appended to a document that makes no pretence of being an Open Letter. It is a direct mailing (yes, old-fashioned, hard-copy snail-mail) to members of the College of Cardinals, asking THEM, as the Pope’s official advisers, to approach him with a request for correction and clarification of AL. The only reason the media were told about this initiative at all was to pre-empt probable Vatileaks (Cardileaks?) on the part of certain recipients of the appeal, and the resulting inevitable distortions of its content. The perennial philosophy, as you well know, sees courage as the mean between cowardice on the one hand and foolhardiness or rashness on the other. The latter is when you put your neck on the block when there’s no real need to do so.

    Finally, by way of full disclosure (no, not full FRONTAL disclosure, despite the provocation of the crass video clip you posted), I should add that I am one of the signatories to the submission in question, and – prior to reading your nasty, fratricidal reaction to it – told the organizers they can publish this fact if that should seem opportune. (Not that this required the virtue of courage on my part, since I’m an oldie who is nearing retiring age anyway, and would in fact welcome free time and solitude to devote myself to prayer, study and writing.)
    God bless you,
    Fr. Brian Harrison, O.S.

  30. DCM says:

    For the reparation of blaspheming the most Holy name in the movie clip above ; May the most holy, most sacred, most adorable, most mysterious and unutterable Name of God be always praised, blessed, loved, adored and glorified in heaven on earth and under the earth, by all the creatures of God, and by the Sacred Heart of our Lord Jesus Christ in the most Holy Sacrament of the altar.

  31. Theresa says:

    Hilary, I really don’t care about your justification. Your article is absolutely disgusting and certainly unbecoming a Catholic woman who proclaims herself an Oblate of the Church no less. You really ought to revisit this with your spiritual director.

    If we’re all about restoring what is proper to Catholic culture, let’s do it, okay, not just talk about? And that includes your editorial techniques.

    This was entirely unfit for a Catholic woman to read, let alone publish in the name and interests of Traditional Catholicism.

  32. SAF says:

    Hmmm. Now I read that the Cardinals will receive the document with signatures included, and that the signatories are only anonymous to the public, for now. Better.
    They have my prayers and, I hope, the prayers of all reading here.
    Susan Farris

  33. Deacon Augustine says:

    Hilary, I do not think you are being fair to single out lay theologians. The exact same charge could be levied at all the priests, bishops and cardinals who will not step out of line for fear of their own security of living, prospects and “good names” being adversely affected. Anybody who “makes their living” from the Church has similar pressures to contend with – at least lay theologians may have a spouse who can support them whose income is not “Church-dependent.”

    This is one reason why I have consistently argued against some of my brethren that deacons should be financially independent of the Church. I could be suspended, laicized or excommunicated tomorrow and my income and family security would not be afftected one jot. If they were looking for a patsy in Holy Orders, they could have sought the services of a deacon to that end – after all there is the precedent of a chap called Athanasius at the Council of Nicea. However, I am sure that Dr. Shaw is academically more qualified than your average deacon.

    The main danger of this softly, softly approach is that it will just be ignored and the press will take no interest in it because there are no headline-grabbing names to put to the story. It needs publicity if its going to work – unless it achieves its aim by so increasing the blood pressure of the BOR that he has a stroke and solves the problem for us.

  34. Liz Yore says:

    How tragically ironic that the laity who are objecting to the Pope’s exhortation on the Family must remain anonymous because of fear of reprisals from the Pope of Mercy and His Minions.

  35. J says:

    I kinda think that, if you’re a layman majoring in theology, (or laywoman doing so, as I did,) and you want to make a living off of that, you’re crazy. I chose that major, and may yet still get a Masters in it, for my own enjoyment and edification, not so I can make someone else happy with what I write or say.

    @Veri Catholic: Thanks for the link! 🙂 The document certainly doesn’t mince words.

  36. SAF says:

    Count me unimpressed too. Anonymous signatories are easily ignored. The nails will have to have names, suffer, lose jobs, be persecuted, if anything is to be accomplished.
    Susan Farris

  37. Gerard Brady says:

    I wholly concur that people need to step up to the plate regardless of repercussions. If I was Cardinal Sarah I would issue a clarification of Fr. Lombardi’s clarification and issue a binding instruction with a protocol number and maybe serious penalties for those who demur. I have a dream…

  38. Joseph Shaw says:

    As a matter of fact I wouldn’t say the lay signatories are more worried than the clerical ones. The latter have religious superiors and bishops to worry about, and vows of obedience. They too may find it impossible to feed their children – their spiritual ones – when the chickens come home to roost. They’ve all made the calculation and understand the risk.

  39. Lionel Andrades says:

    I am in an unusally secure position. -Joseph Shaw

    Joseph Shaw, John Lament and Thomas Pink teach the new theology which violates the Principle of Non Contradiction.They remain politically correct with the bishops to keep their mandatum to teach theology

    Anonymous Catholics object to Amoris Laeitia : Pope not in heresy

  40. Veri Catholici says:

    FYI, at the Veri Catholic Conference, at Rome on June 25, the members (all laity) resolved and signed the following:

    We are on FB, and you can see our names.

  41. Fuquaysteve says:

    Well, can’t speak for anyone else, but I crossed my legs.

    Well said as usual.

  42. Ana Milan says:

    This Appeal, private or otherwise, will have no effect unless it takes the further step in denouncing PF as a heretic. I understand the signees feel they must consider their families but so must we all. Their spiritual life is paramount in our minds , the safety of which is worth any price we may have to collectively pay.

    The ECHR guarantees freedom of speech & although the Vatican may not be a member of the EU, PF has repeatedly shown his admiration for both the EU & UN as institutes of state to the nth degree, so ignoring their laws would make him a hypocrite as well as a heretic.

    The battle lines are now drawn – the heresies written into Amoris Laetitia, a Pastoral Council that must uphold the teachings of previous Councils & Synods but doesn’t, in fact directly contradicts them; undue pressure on the SSPX to accept VII (another Pastoral Council) in full which has led to the desecration of our Liturgy of Ages, the Sacraments, Catechesis, torn apart our church interiors, ditched liturgical music et. in order to please non-Catholics. Now they are fully on board for the LGBT Agenda, protection of enabling Bishops/Cardinals et al, accompanying the divorced & remarried with the intention of allowing them access to Holy Communion. By their haste to get everyone on the Modernist boat they will at a future date approve abortion & euthanasia in certain circumstances.

    When will ALL Catholics worldwide acknowledge that the CC has been in Apostasy for over 50 years & we are reaping the whirlwind of our parents generation not getting involved at the start & cutting it off at the root.

  43. Hilary White says:

    Publish the document itself, with the censures and cross references, and I’ll be impressed…

    or at least, I’ll be slightly less unimpressed.

    This is why it’s been a hugely dumb idea to let laymen study theology and claim the title “theologian”. Because when it comes to the freedom to say something that no one wants to hear, a priest isn’t going to say, “but I have to keep my tenure so I can keep feeding my kids.”

    Yes, it will be bad when the vicious, vindictive bastards we’re fighting discover who everyone is and start turning the screws on. But if you didn’t think this was going to happen, if you were too naive to figure out that you were fighting a war with the very people who hold all the power in your life, you should have learned a respectable trade instead.

    “lay theologian” isn’t something that should ever have come about.

    If it’s not meant to be public, don’t send it to every Cardinal in the world. As long as the statement is widely known, but not publicly available, it will be misinterpreted.

    These people are dumb as planks and can’t conceive of the things we take for granted about how the real world works. I want to line up every lay theologian academic in the world and slap them all until they have some common sense knocked into their idiot skulls.

    There’s a theology conference happening right now in Norcia. I’m so mad I’m going to go down to the Enoteca to work today, and I’m going to drink a whole mezzo litro of Montefalco and will be lying in wait for any of them who shows up, ready with my slappin’ hand.

  44. Joseph Shaw says:

    Thank you, Hillary.

    But I don’t want to claim any greater degree of machismo than the other signatories of the appeal. The point of the document is not a public denunciation but a private appeal to the Cardinals and Patriarchs. The reason we’ve issued a press release is to prevent it being misrepresented (or, at least, to make that a little harder).

    If the appeal has any positive effect the push-back will almost certainly include a leaking of the text and signatories and a persecution of the latter. I am in an unusally secure position. Many of the other signatories will need your prayers.

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